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tv   Jansing and Co.  MSNBC  April 19, 2013 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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monday and injuring and maiming dozens of others. the suspects have been identified as a 19-year-old and his 26-year-old brother who was killed overnight in a shootout with police. profiler clint van zandt and hostage thoeshtor for the atf and criminologist james fox and john j college science professor. let me begin with nbc's katie tour who has been live on the scene. tell us where you are and what you are seeing. >> i'm in watertown. i don't want to give you too much about the location because the police have asked us not to give too much out about the efforts. somewhere in watertown behind me here we believe there is a standoff going on. police believe they have cornered one of the suspects, the guy in the white hat. this is where things came to a head if you call it that last night. early this morning when police gave chase and they cornered the
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two suspects. the black hat and the white hat suspects and encountered a shootout. in that, the suspect in the black hat was shot dead. his brother with the white hat managed to flee the scene and he is believed to be somewhere in watertown ever since. just in case the city of boston put down a lockdown for pretty much everybody. asked everyone in the suburbs and in boston itself to stay inside. this is not just for the safety of the people inside, but they don't want to get the suspects lost in a crowd. things have been quiet here for the last hour. they did start to heat up about an hour ago, but we have seen nothing of an eventful nature happening in the last hour. there is a police helicopter circling and a no-fly zone. that is the only helicopter that has been in the air and we have seen tactical units and buses full of boston police department
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officers. we can't hear anything from where we are. it does seem to be a bit of a stand still right now. >> thank you very much. in the suburbs of boston there, they have been turned into a virtual war zone. tank, police officers, we saw literally dozen fist not hundreds of s.w.a.t. team members and people in camouflage. lester holt is on the scene for us. lester, tell us what you are seeing. >> when i got here very, very early this morning, there was a police officer that was giving a very informal briefing and he indicated there were two outstanding individuals and that jives with what we are hearing now that there might be accomplices here. we are reduced to reading tea leaves because it's unto travel around the neighborhoods and a lot of them are blocked off. the tea leaves with the movements of officers.
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s.w.a.t. vans and explosive vehicles going to a particular area. it's hard to read whether they are going off intelligence, a hunch, or trying to be methodical. another thing to keep in mind in the very, very early hours, there was still the perimeter that was not set. there was a lot of confusion and cars backing down the street and going around and the police officers did not block off all the streets. there was that window where the suspect might have been able to escape. he got into a stolen vehicle, the car that was carjacked, the suv and pushed his way and floored it past the police line. what we haven't heard is where the vehicle ended up. do we know where it ended up and does that lead them to believe he is on foot? we have seen a virtual lockdown and that plays back down that there may be others involved here.
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there was in fact as we heard another device found in boston that has been rendered safe. this thing is moving on a lot of levels right now. we are kind of in reactive mode as pits of information are pieced together. it's fair to say that this is note being overcautious. the individual who did this if you think about what that person has accomplished in the last several days, a twin bomb attack that killed three people and maimed many others, killing a police officer at mit last night and wounding another police officer and throwing explosives at cops and chasing them and finally the shootout here. those are the marks of a very desperate and dangerous person if in fact there other accomplices and part of a broader plot, all this caution we are seeing is warranted. people get it. we are not seeing a lot of
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phonifolks on the street here. i would say they are glued to the television station and trying to get a sense of what's happening. i heard from a friend of a friend whose daughter is holed up in her home here in watertown. they are very worried about her and wanting to get to her. that's the nature of these sorts of things. the s.w.a.t. teams clearly don't want anybody in the street. they are really on edge and trained professionals and looking for suspects. they don't want to deal with people on the street and they don't want to ascertain what they are doing. people recognize the danger. i look down the street and see flags at half-staff here. this is one of many boston area communities that up until today was sharing that collective sense of grief and sadness over what happened on monday and they find themselves in the center of all this. what could be the dramatic conclusion of the awful story taking place here.
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>> if you need to know more information about why this concern is out there, why police believe that this suspect is so dangerous, he ran over his brother when he was shot and his brother was strapped with an ied. we have seen the bomb squads out and there have been a number of active devices in that area before dawn searching the streets and after light came up. they were in back yards. this is an extremely active and volatile situation. from nbc news, at the police staging area. do you have a sense how confident police are that this suspect has been restricted to that area? >> it may well be the case. several hours ago, we saw convoys of military vehicles,
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buses of police and motorcycles and other armed law enforcement officers. all congregating in the staging area behind me across from the mall in a parking lot. it looked like they were preparing for some sort of confrontation if not an assault. there were a lot of sirens going on. that activity seems to have abat abated. they think they know where the suspect is. clearly there was a pretty good sense here watching this that they seemed to be preparing for what could be a very violent confrontation with the suspect or suspects. shortly about a couple of hours ago now, governor patrick came out and we were told that the entire city of boston was under
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lockdown. that seemed to escalate the concerns. we don't know right now as we have been told, they believe they have the suspect cornered in an area and the second suspect is on this amtrak train. then the threat, a largered in threat may have abated, but you have to keep in mind they found the ied in the city of boston that has to raise the question are there more out there they have to be concerned about? even if they capture this guy and take him into custody and his accomplice, there is this question what other devices might be out there. >> that are is part of the search that is going on in this mobilization of a police force. >> let me go to lawrence o'donnell in downtown boston. it is unprecedented to see a
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major metropolitan area essentially brought to a halt. >> there is nothing like it. there very few people on the street here. i'm near the positions that we have set up here on boylston street near the finish line of the marathon and a couple of people walking here and there and a couple of cars here and there. virtually no businesses open. one coffee shop. the workers in boston cannot get to their jobs. the transportation system has been shut down completely. the city is not capable of maintaining anything that resembles normalcy at this hour. >> lawrence o'donnell in boston for us, thank you. i want to bring in a retired atf special agent in charge and these situations, these very volatile and very dangerous
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situations are no stranger to you. you are deeply involved in waco and the unibomber case and the atlanta bombing and the d.c. sniper case. take us into this moment right now. what are the priorities for investigators right now and especially for those on the scene in the area where they may or at least believe they have a strong indication of where the suspect is. >> i think they isolated him, chris. this is very standard procedure we do on all operations. it's text book. he is isolated and neighbors have been evacuated. he is located and the process starts. we negotiated with guys with bombs strapped on their chest before and suicidal guys and armed guys and people who have killed people. no matter what he wanted to achieve, now he's a person barricaded with bombs and guns and we know how to deal with guys like that, but what we top
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the do is talk to him, ask him if he wounded? is he shot in the shootout with police and what does he want to say? if he did it for a reason? what does he want to say. you have to listen to dzhokhar. it's static if he is there. that's a static scene. the explosives as you pointed out across the city and as lawrence talked about, this is a different threat, but you got to look at the window of time and when the picture was put up by the fbi and then when they went to the armed robbery scene. that's the only window they had to plant the devices other than the ones they threw. how many could they have planted? that could be tightened up and the route tightened up and searched.
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there could be other bombs out there. that could help keep the city safer as well. >> james fox, professor of criminology at north eastern university who is coming to us from boston, a few things we have learned about this suspect. his father was apparently interviewed. he is in russia. he said my son is say true angel. he called him so intelligent. obviously he is very young. where do you go with figuring out who this guy is and taking that information and using it to your advantage if you are trying to start a conversation with him? if potentially other people are still in danger. we don't know if there was anyone else in the house. tell us how that works together. >> i think the important point here is that his older brother who is probably his mentor is dead. >> seeing him in the videos with people who are looking at him,
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he seem seemed to be the one walking ahead. he has been plotting with him for sometime. now he's alone. >> his behavior is going to change now. he was emboldened and guided by his older brother. why would someone who was a star athlete and won a scholarship and a bright kid, good kid by all accounts. a lot of this has to do with his older brother and their relationship. why did they do it? a lot had to do with each other. now that the older brother is dead, they can have him isolated away from the influence of the older brother and i think that will be the approach. your brother is dead and this is over. his behavior will probably change and attitude will probably change. >> no doubt that this was highly planned and we are seeing not only for the boston marathon, but within a matter of hours as
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lawrence o'donnell was pointing out, they released the photos, but they are not going after these guys because someone called in a tip. they are doing it because they went on the run. they tried to rob a 7-11. they killed an mit police officer. they wounded another officer. this was highly planned. i guess the question and you can tell me whether it's significant or not, did they make additional plans before or after the marathon bombing? >> i would think we are going to find out that they meticulously planned the best they could the marathon bombing, but there was no escape plan. what they planned to do was hunker down in place and not fully appreciating whatsoever the ability of atf, fbi, and everybody else to pour through a million pictures and within two days give us isolated pictures
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of the people responsible for this. when the fbi put the pictures up yesterday, i think these two went into panic mode. they didn't want to make an escape in a car that they knew could be linked to them so they needed money and they needed a vehicle and they needed to get on the run. everything that took place last night and this morning is they are making it up as they go. i agree with jim. now that we have the lead individual, the older brother dead, the younger one has to make decisions. as an fbi hostage negotiator, this is the type of guy we would like to talk to. we contain him and isolate him from contact with the outside world and we negotiate and we help him identify reasons to live. that's what fbi negotiators and atf will be trying to do. if they can get him located in one place, time is somewhat on
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our side. it's unprecedented to shut a city down like this. it sets a terrible example for people in the future, but right now this is what we have to deal with. >> when i heard about the 7-11 and you hear about them with the mit police officer, why would you dru attention to yourself? they had to know that they were going to be pursued. is that tied to the fact and when i originally saw that video yesterday that was released and taken from the department store camera, they looked calm. they looked like anybody. they almost looked confident-cocky to me. there is the video to me. they are walking down the streets with the backpacks like they don't have a care in the world. >> that's exactly right. they went into a panic or a manic state. it was a mission state. they went out and what purpose
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would their panic state be to kill an mit police officer. that gained nothing. that's part of the mission to plant another pressure cooker device somewhere in the city does not help their escape either. that's part of the mission. clint is right. when they saw it on there, they went into a manic or a panic state. what are we going to do now? i doubt that pressure cooker bomb was made after their picture was put up. that pressure cooker bomb that is found last night was already made. that was made before. the bombs they had strapped on the brother's chest and they through t to police were probably already made for later bombing campaigns. they gathered all the gear and all the stuff, guns, bombs, and they wanted to get money like another car and shoot the officer and drop the
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conspirator, if that's true. maybe leave a bomb at the amtrak station. one of the interesting things is how this transpires. look who welcomes involved. the amtrak police and the mit police. this is a universal law enforcement effort to get it done. >> in terms of law enforcement when you pursue someone like this, this is the worst case scenario. is it not someone not hesitant to kill and not afraid to die. >> not afraid. one of the reasons i believe that the police waited until 5:00 yesterday to release the photos was to wait until the president was out of town. wait until the crowd at the service was dispursed. if they released the photo earlier, there would have been tremendous liability and panic and risk. by releasing it at 5:00 p.m., it
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happened when they were asleep. they anticipated that this could happen and it did. they are controlling the city as best they can. i think it was strategic to do it this way. >> they are not stopping the investigation while this is going on. they have been looking carefully at the bomb components and they are trying to use that information to track where the components came from. potentially to lead them to other accomplices that they may be. >> no question about it. examining the and the components allows you to trace back to the manufacturer and where would the items and the components performed, all of this to lead to the perpetrator. we know the perpetrator thanks to videotape surveillance and we had photos and that was the key step in determining who the
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bombers were. now we need to know more. the informs is essential to determine the motive that drove these individuals. there a lot of people looking at cell phone records and internet communications. mail. there people who are questioning associates, relatives and friends of these people just to determine what was the motive? who else is involved? is this an international jihadist movement or is it something homegrown? somehow they were influenced by what they were reading in the media or is this just one small cell and independent of others? there is so much we don't know and if they can take this fellow alive, maybe we can learn a lot more. we will find out anyway, alive or dead the search for information and it will come out soon.
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>> at the white house, the president joined by vice president biden convened a briefing in the situation room with his national security team. they are getting briefed on this investigation as well as the ongoing situation in boston and watertown. let me go to pete williams which is live in washington. what's the latest? >> thanks. >> pete? >> sorry. good day. i think we have a better idea of why. we see this extraordinary security environment here in boston and the suburbs. understandable why in water where they believe that he may be holed up. that explains the situation around there. they think they know where he is, but not positive. there is a concern for the last couple of hours that he and his brother may have had accomplices and those accomplices may be at
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large and could be dangerous. this morning authorities found and disarmed another bomb in the boston area. i say another bomb. i mean a bomb today in the boston area. there is a concern about whether there could be other devices. you put all of those factorsing to and that's the explanation for the unprecedentedly strict security in boston and the suburbs right now. >> when you talk about the motivation and their state of mind and why they did what they did including the attempted robbery of that 7-11, you have got more information on the carjacking that occurred. they took a man at gunpoint for about a half hour. >> right. after the robbery of the 7-11 and after shooting the campus policemen. they carjack and got an suv and held the man at gunpoint and got into the car and stole his debit
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card and on their way to watertown, they stopped three times to try to withdraw money from atms according to a person with direct knowledge of what happened. the first one was rejected because they used the wrong pin number and then they got the pin number right and got $800 out and when they tried it more time around 11:30 last night, that one said they exceeded the man's daily withdrawal limit. they let him go. they stopped at a gas station and let him go. during the drive, they told him they just killed a campus policeman and they were the marathon bombers. >> pete williams, thank you very much. a former secret service agent who spent time in russia and have terror analyst evan coleman and one aspect we have not talked about this hour is where they are from. you spent a significant amount of time in russia and ties to
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chechnya. what have you been able to learn? >> the chechnyans and the separatists are considered russia to be the target and not the united states. not that we were the friend, but we are speculating on the motives. i found it odd that they decided to pick the united states as a target. that's definitely a curveball that was thrown. >> born in russia, the 26-year-old who died, the 19-year-old is still at large, what can you tell us? >> it's relatively interesting. we got a statement from the official chechnyan. they said this is part of a negative campaign and these brother his nothing to do with the bombings. to say there were a number of different organizations in chechnya and surrounding regions
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that do recruit them to carry out operation, not necessarily overseas, but militant operations. not all of those folks are in chech ni chechnya. we had reports from the soldiers in the field and afghanistan who heard on the radios, enemy troops speaking in russian. we have seen russian suicide bombers pop up in places like afghanistan and pakistan. it's a brought area of territory for these guys to have been involved if it was a group. if it was a group. look, i mean this was not the most uncosisophisticated plot. >> in boston, i am sold we have information about whether or not there islamic ties. what have you found out? >> nothing confirmed at this
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point, but one interesting possible lead here is that a you tube video posted under the name of the older brother, talks about the islamic prophesy posted four or five months ago on his you tube account. this is an islamic prophesy that talks about the final battle of good and evil about an invincible army coming from central asia. it will triumph in the world. it has been cited by osama bin laden and this particular prophesy inspired the title of the book written by of the top counter terrorism agents trying to explain the depth and scope of islamic ideology.
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they called this the black banners after this particular prophesy that has been embraced by al qaeda. something that has been embraced by extremists and al qaeda and we found a number of websites and mother jones and others have located this you tube and posted under the name about four or five months ago. it's hard on the internet to verify whether that is indeed the person we are looking for and given the central asia connection and given the same name, it is certainly aing in s suggestive lead behind the ideology driving the two brothers. >> thank you very much, michael. the number one concern right now is to apprehend this suspect dead or alive and of course the safety and security of people in the boston area.
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having said that, there a lot of ongoing parts of this investigation. i would think that finding out if they had ties, finding out if they had philosophies could be very important to knowing whether that threat is limited to the people we know about right now. >> that's right, chris. this important information given by pete and mike, one thing that the commanders want to do on the ground is get everything they can from the citizen who was carjacked. he is going to be able to tell them a lot about the two guys. how did they interact and what were they saying? did they talk about other plans and did you see any other bombs in the car? did they look scare and apprehensive? that's a lot of information they can get. >> to that point, let me stop you. the brothers told the carjacking victim that they were the marathon bombers and they killed an officer. almost as if they were not trying to get away clean. they let him go. what do you make of that? >> exactly.
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sometimes with criminals or terrorists, they do things you don't think they would be. >> just bragging? >> they were bragging and they are known to the whole world. why not tell the guy they just carjacked. they are not afraid. they are in that mission. we are big and bad and famous international killers. that's who we are. they are bragging, sure. that information plus the information that is going to come in from the intelligence community like they were talking about. once they got the names, it becomes an unbelievable silent effort that we don't see on the monitor. they are doing everything they can to find out about the guys and associates and family and where they have been on you tube and google. it will be a dossier on the guys within 24 hours. the intelligence community will be able to share with law
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enforcement and find out if there coconspirators and accomplices. >> nbc news terrorism expert, to that point, tell us about how you prioritize this information that you are looking for in terms of what you want to do which is avoid the immediate threat and shut down. there will be times to do in the future sort of the psychological profile and those things. how do you prioritize at this point for the safety and security of the people in that area around boston? >> it's very much like what you described. this is unprecedented securing of an enormous area. that's because although the police and fbi are looking for one individual, they have to assume there other people. that doesn't mean there. you have to go into situations
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expecting the very, very worst. whether it's more coconspirators out there. you secure it and from there, you start going into exactly why and who else they are linked to. every piece of information you can think of it as a stone being thrown into a bond and the ripple effects that go out. each ripple are elements of the further investigation. whether it's phones or e-mails or you tube and social media and financial data and intelligence from overseas, each one of those leads to a new threat. you prioritize by those that appear to look strongest and those that appear to pose a threat. i think it's important at this point that we be very, very careful about speculating about who this person might be linked to and the like. those are all things that will be investigating and right now it's finding the individual and identifying his social network and going from there. >> digging into who this
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19-year-old is. he is possibly a follower of his 26-year-old brother. we don't know, for example, who made that bomb. was it one of them or did they do it? >> that's an important point. we know the two brothers delivered the bombs, but did they construct the bombs? we know there is another suspect out trying to escape the area to new york and stopped on a train. is he the bomb maker? now that we have an unexploded ied, we can look for fingerprints and dna if one of these two built the bomb or the other person or somebody unknown who constructed these lethal bombs. >> would we probably know that by now? >> i think from the ied yesterday, it will have fingerprints and certainly dna. if they have a suspect like the fellow on the train, they can
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find out very quickly if he is the bomb maker. >> we have a couple of things coming up. any minute we are expecting secretary kerry to hold a press availability. this was originally scheduled and the former secretary to the state department. the first question will be asked by reporter bradley clapper from the associated press about this ongoing situation in massachusetts. less than ten minutes from now, we are expecting the next news in watertown. 10 time 40 is when they are expected to come out with the microphones and we will have more information at that point. what are the questions, the key questions you have if you were asking for secretary of state kerry? >> i think the secretary is probably going to defer comment knowing that there is a barricaded guy with guns. he is going to be cautious.
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>> would you assume he is watching coverage if he's in a house? >> yes. absolutely. i would assume he is watching coverage and has been since the marathon bombings. they were probably glued to the television. he could very well be watching tv and what officials say. he is trying to decide what to do. his mentor like the professor said is his older brother and he's gone. this is his sacrifice. what does he have to do. he has three choices. suicide and burn down the house and shoot himself and blow himself up or drown himself in the bathtub. that's all suicide. suicide by cop where he charges out the door and he is shot by police or he can surrender. he has one good choice and two bad choices. what he has to do is think through this. >> what you are saying is a good choice and bad choice from law enforcement perspective might be
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very different than when he considers to be a good choice or bad choice, yes? >> absolutely. clearly he's willing to die. by the fact that he drove the car over his brother towards the officers and they are bragging they are the bombers. he has an element of suicide in his mission. he is suicidal, but suicide is an ever-changing thing. it changes minute to minute and hour to hour. it may abate if he can talk to the negotiators and realize there is more reason to live. >> i want to bring in charles rangle from new york. you lived through this and 9/11. when your state was attacked. have you been getting updates and your observations at this point? >> america is being tested. god has blessed this great country and not having to deal with these things as so many people do every day.
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you never know until we are tested. certainly 911 with all of the tragedy everyone felt we would come back, as we have. the relationship that new yorkers have with what happened in boston is totally amazing how people are asking me how can they help those that have been hurt in boston. there is something about america that causes us to pull together and to really want to help each other. this test we never had to have like the israelis and the palestinians where every day they witnessed something like this. i can only hope that the terrorist person survivors so we can see what's behind all of this and we can do the best we can so it never happens again. >> to that point, if there is a
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situation where they have him corner and if they do have negotiators who are talking to him, they don't care how long this goes. they want to keep him alive, right? >> time is on the side of the negotiations. realize there is millions of dollars being spent and lost in commerce. that doesn't disappear off the radar. the primary job as jim suggests, we have two things. we have to make sure there no other devices that will blow up and hurt people and get this guy out alive so we can talk to him and better understand what he did and what his motivation was and are there any more like him out there ready to carry out similar missions. >> how quickly might you get a sense of that, clint? given the number of resources that we know are out there and they are at the house and checking everything that
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happened online. now they have evidence they are able to follow. >> the more i know about the person we are talking to, the more you know, the better job you can do. jim cavanaugh and i have been in situations where you are sitting there and talking to the subject and people are sticking notes in front of you as they gather more intelligence and more information. a negotiator is a fisherman and a fisherman has multiple psychological lores in his tackle box. we are trying to help this guy get on with his life. he may say i want to die, but that doesn't mean he has to die. if he does, he takes his message and every reason that he did this with him and no one will understand. if he wants to honor his brother's death and honor everything that he has done, he needs to explain it so the world understands. the negotiators and law
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enforcement want to give him a chance to share that message and if he hears our words right now, that's something he needs to consider. listen to the negotiators. they will give you an honorable way to discuss and share what you did without any more bloodshed. >> i want to keep that thought and follow-up on that. wrc's pat collins is at the brother's uncle's house. what can you tell us? >> first let me tell you where i am. we are in montgomery village in i suburb of washington. take a look across the street. you can see the house with the van and the white truck in the driveway, that is the home of the uncle of the two boston bombing suspects. he has been identified as rus lynn sarny. he lived here to years and has several young children. this morning police and fbi
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agents went into that house and they wanted to talk to him. they want to know what he knows about his nephews and when he last heard from his nephews and he is said to have told him he was shocked by everything that happened so far. the police have blocked off the street here and say they want to keep us a safe distance away. again, he has been interrogated now by fbi and police for sometime. they came into the house this morning and they did allow his wife to take three young girls in the van to school about an hour or hour ago. i want to come over here and introduce you to adam mason. he is a neighbor. tell us about the sarny family. >> nice people and they care about the neighborhood and always friendly. kids are friendly. nice people. >> did you ever see young men hanging at the house over there? >> when they first moved in
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there were a couple of young guys in high school. i haven't seen them around for about two year or so, but probably out of high school or early college age. >> did you notice anything suspicious? >> no. >> what do you make of this whole thing? >> i'm not sure what to make of it. hopefully they are still the nice family we know them to be and they have nothing to do with it. >> thank you very much adam mason, next door neighbor. >> i call your attention to the house across the street with the white pick up and the van, that's where the uncle of the boston bombing suspects lives and where he is talking to fbi and police. we are keeping an eye on things here and let you know if anything else happens. back to you. >> thank you for that interesting information. james fox, it's possible and we are not just talking about the uncle, but the father in russia who talked about his son being an injle.
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angel. the family knew nothing? james fox? are you there? we seem to have lost his microphone, but we will go to jim cavanaugh again. you were deeply involved in the unibomber case and i am thinking about ted kosinski and there was no doubt about his mental state even among his family. is it possible that nobody close to them, nobody in the immediate family had a clue? >> that is possible. they could have been radicalized through the internet and contacts. they clearly have people as clint described, reasons to live. to get his message out. why did he do all of this? the second thing is this report from his father is true, his father is expressing love for his son. now there is an uncle and family
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members in the washington suburbs expressing support or family love for the nephew. these are all reasons to live as well. he has to think about that and when he talks to the negotiators to think about maybe i should end the mission and live and go to court. it's going to play. it's going to play back and forth. it's very dynamic. he can blow himself up on the front porch or surrender peacefully. >> you do wonder and i guess we have james fox back. since this was methodically planned, did they have as part of the plan some way they wanted to reveal what their motive was? >> they may. let me point out one fact here. they left the carjacking victim alone. they didn't hurt him. because they had established a relationship with him.
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all the people that they killed were anonymous. no names and no faces. it's a lot easier for people like this to target and kill people they don't know. anonymous victims. establishing a relationship with him will be important for the police. this is why all the people who knew them said wonderful things about them. they may indeed have good relationships with the people they care about, but everyone else, they are part of the target. the target here is society and boston and government and whatever. they still could have an attachment to human beings. that's what they should play on. >> we want to talk about some late information that is coming in. about whether or not it's possible that this home was
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booby trapped. who has that information? you immediately think about what happened in colorado and the booby traps set there that were extraordinarily complex. there is that concern. there is that concern there in watertown? >> also a concern when you have people who make the devices and the police here are being very cautious. they backed up the media and cleared the area for a couple of blocks around the house and file -- >> i want to clarify. this is cambridge, the norfolk street address and not in watertown. >> 410 norfolk street in came brimming where the suspected bombers lived. they brought in porta potties and got ready for a long haul. they planned to go in there and if anything was found, take it apart carefully.
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>> there is always a possible indication that maybe this suspect may have been injured. there was blood on the scene they found? >> in watertown, there was blood found that the police are trying to match now to see if it in fact came from an injury or wound to one of the two suspects. the suspect is alive and still on the loose. >> obviously he got away. he left on foot. he left that car and went away on foot. larry, if they do have blood, he will talk about the csi effect. how quickly could they identify if it was his blood? >> they can do dna analysis in 75 minutes. technology advanced tremendously. i have another question. i heard in early reports that there was military-type explosive that they found on the street. if that's true, the question is how did these two people get
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ahold of this level of explosives. not everybody has access to that type of high explosive. that's another unanswered question. >> michael, any insight into that? >> i know i sound like a broken record, but in these situations, false reports and misleading information is just a multitude of it. >> excuse me for a second, a reporter on the scene is getting pushed back. let's listen. >> they won't let us up there. >> back out.
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>> i can't say exactly where kerry is except in watertown, but he was near what was yellow crime tape before when he was reporting for the area. clearly in what seems to be a frantic way, they are moving them away from this area. james fox would tell you obviously they have an ongoing situation right there. we are hearing kerry now? >> and then as you know as we were starting to talk and i was beginning to give that scene, the officers after looking forward and putting the media back and you can hear i'm being asked to back up even further. we are backing up and backing up. >> how far are you now, i'm trying to understand the radius they are trying to establish. have you made your way several blocks away? >> this is what i'm going to do.
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stay with me and i will see if i can get a live camera and narrate for you what's going on. i think pictures might give you a better view. we will be much further away, but give me a second to walk over. give me a second. >> weer on a shot and your mike is open. we have a shot. we don't know if we have your shot. we leave your mike open so jump in as we watch this. these help us understand the situation here. >> any time you have a situation like this whether it's the subject or an innocent bystander, officers will put that person on the ground and you prone them out and do a
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methodical search. no matter what. that's standard. this is too early to say this is the subject they are looking for. it could be something that happened out in the middle of the crime scene that. perimeter. officers are going to take that precautionary measure. >> obviously they have so many questions and few answers when you see officers casting a very wide berth around a house, it speaks to the gravity. this is because of the explosives. the officers are going to slow everything way down. you just can't afford to take a misstep and trigger explosive devices. >> jim cavanaugh is the retired special agent and again, we don't know for sure. we believe they had an area
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where he was if they had eyes on, they may well be able to see what he may have with him. we know his brother had an explosive device strapped to himself. >> that's right. two key things we learned is blood picked up that they suspect may be his blood. as a commander if you are running the scene, you are not worried about the dna. you are worried about does the guy have a wound where he might bleed out? barricaded suspects can bleed out and die. that's a question. how serious is the wound? >> the other thing i think of is if he's in a lot of pain and bleeding out and freaking out about it, what does that mean for his mental state? >> exactly. you try to figure out is he woundeded and the extent of it. when you talked about a booby trapped house, one of the cases
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is the madrid train bombings where the terrorists went back to their apartment house and when the police came in the immediate days afterwards, they detonated the apartment in a suicide bombing thing. it happened before. terrorists planted bombs and when the police come they blow themselves up. >> clint van zandt, if we have a case where we have a suspect who has lost his older brother and lost someone who seems to be his leader and may indeed be injured, how does that change the situation for negotiators? >> i think that when you listen to them -- >> excuse me for one second. kerry sanders is back up and live. >> now they are pushing us even further away. i'm not sure what is going on. it appeared there was -- we
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needed to get down and now we are getting back up off the ground and moving a considerable distance away from what is developing. we are going back even more. >> okay. please do. >> i wish i could give you a better explanation why, but it's tense when an officer tells you to get on the ground. >> we want to you do what they tell you and this is a tense situation. watertown, massachusetts. we don't know what we are dealing with. i see a picture and police victims. here you are, kerry. we see you. >> great. let me show you what you got. down here police cars and if you look over here -- [inaudible]
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if you go all the way down about a block and a half [inaudible] this is a live camera. thank you. down on the sidewalk here, this is well past many of the police officers and the officers were crouching behind cars and taking different positions where what appeared to be to me somebody laying on the ground in a turquoise shirt. the person did not appear to be moving at all. >> all right, kerry. stand by there and keep us posted on what's going on. i want to bring don in, the former joint terrorism task force and someone with great expertise. >> obviously kerry sanders is live with the today show. as that situation is developing, we are going to keep you posted on what's going on there.
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clint? >> yes. >> give us an assessment of what we have been seeing. >> i think one of the reason yes kerry sanders has been pushed on the ground, one of the things you do on the inner perimeter, you have to have that far enough back. whatever weapon your subject has. a hand gun and rifle and explosive, you want that to be back far enough out of the range of that weapon. as law enforcement does an assessment on the threat, they have to adjust the perimeter based upon the threat. >> jim, is that your assessment? hold on. john kerry, secretary of state. let's listen. >> my thoughts are of course in my hometown right now. boston. events are still unfolding and the entire city is on lockdown. we are continuing to learn more every moment about the terror attack on monday and the pursuit
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of justice that is following it. i think it's fair to say for the entire week we have been in a pretty direct confrontation with evil. i want to congratulate and thank all law enforcement for the job they have been doing on behalf of our citizens. in the past few days, we have seen the best and the worst of human behavior. it's the best that all of us want to focus on. like everyone we are going to keep watching and will await word from the law enforcement officers before commenting further. it's a huge pleasure for me and an important moment to welcome one of our most important partners. our close neighbor and our friend and i want to welcome my friend, the foreign secretary. one of the first phone calls i
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made when i became secretary of state and i am honored to see him here today. we share an alma mater together. he was a grad student and i was an under graduate. >> john kerry, we are told, the first question will be about the bombing. obviously he made this statement and we know he knows somebody who was injured here. we are told there will be questions at some point. we'll listen for that. kerry sanders back live at the scene. >> step out of the way and see what kind of zoom you can do there. there is a long way from where we were, but many, many police officers' cars. there is the one black car from the left it's beyond that on the left side about another half block down they saw this punish on the ground. we will see if we can move the camera more to the right here. see if any picture comes in that explains the situation to you.
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here's what we are looking at. see the white car and the police officer's car that is turning into the other one. about or cars beyond that, they were taking up the defensive position and behind the back left bumper and pistol drawn and down on his knee and then -- the officer is going to have to move. i figured that was going to be the case. the other officers had out their shotguns as well as others had ar 15s and had them up and did not have the necessary defense positions because they were still moving forward trying to assess the situation. you were jogging a throng point where they were taking in what's going on. i would say about seven or prove officers spun around and saw that the running of cameras and
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reporters was coming. they pushed it back because they appeared it was a threatening situation. they had their weapon pull and must be something threatening. they asked us to back off and i stopped. just like the officer following his model. another officer came and said you will have to go back and move back. then they asked us to take a position where they had to lay down. i'm not sure why that was. i am looking at two snipers who took positions. they are not aiming rifles at this point. he just told us -- if i knew what was going on we wouldn't be standing here. i will listen to what he has to say. i will move positions and take his advice. >> please do. we will check back with you. you wanted to say? >> we don't know what was happening before this situation got more volatile, but one of the possibilities and there was a lull. there could have been a

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